Monero Monitor

Episode 1: A random walk with Riccardo "fluffyponyza" Spagni

27 Mar 20170 Comments

Welcome to the first episode of the Monero Monitor Podcast! With this show, I hope to more deeply explore the Monero space. While some podcasts have featured talks on the Monero protocol specifically, we'll be talking about the people, projects, and general happenings surrounding not just the core Monero project but the Monero community as a whole.

To kick off the show, I was joined by Riccardo "fluffyponyza" Spagni to talk about some of his involvement in the cryptocurrency space. Many know him best as a member of the Monero Core Development Team, but today we talk about a number of other projects he's been involved in, either in the past or as an ongoing venture. Enjoy the show!

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Podcast Transcript:

Riccardo: I learned how to troll from being trolled. 

~~ { Introductory Music } ~~

Mike: Hey, everybody, this is Mike. You may know me as bigreddmachine on reddit and you’re listening to the first episode of the Monero Monitor Podcast. We’ve got a great interview lined up for you all today, and it is my great pleasure to speak with Riccardo ”fluffypony” Spagni, core team member of the Monero project. How is it going, Riccardo? 

Riccardo: Hello! Not too bad, thank you very much for having me. 

Mike: Yeah, of course. Thanks for coming on and thanks for kind of being the guinea pig of the show too since this is the first episode. 

Riccardo: Or the guinea pony…

Mike: Yeah, yeah, there you go, the guinea pony. I’m especially excited because I feel like I’ve talked to you a number of times on IRC or reddit or whatever, but this is the first chance I’ve gotten to speak with you in person. So, thanks for giving me the honor.

Riccardo: Thank you very much.

Mike: If you don’t mind, since this is the first show, before you and I kind of get started, I just wanted to take, I don’t know, 20 seconds and relay to any listeners that we may or may not get, sort of the idea behind this show. Over the past months, or couple years, you’ve obviously appeared on a number of Bitcoin related podcasts and I know you even had the Monero Missive for a little while, although I get the feeling that was probably a bit of a burden for you after a while. 

Riccardo: Yeah, it became a bit of a chore. 

Mike: Yeah. I thought it would be cool if somebody outside of that core team started a show where we could have some of the same types of things that Bitcoin podcasts do; feature people, feature projects, but instead of focusing on Bitcoin, we could maybe do that with Monero. So, bring in guests that might be involved in core development, but also have their own startups, or their own interests and then maybe occasionally we’ll venture into the Bitcoin space or some of the other altcoins or something like that. But the core focus then being primarily on what else is going on around Monero. 

Riccardo: Cool. 

QS 2:18 Mike: I guess, everything that has been about Monero up until now has featured you, how did you become that kind of de facto spokesman for Monero?

Riccardo: That’s a good question. Actually, I have no idea.

Mike: Fair enough.

Riccardo: I guess, especially at the beginning and even now to a large degree, Monero is a pro-privacy project which… For some people it can be pretty nerve-racking to be involved in a pro-privacy project under your real identity. To some degree, you make yourself a target or at least you make yourself… I’m hesitant to say a person of interest; I guess more of an interesting person to the certain groups of people. At the same time, I don’t think that a pro-privacy project can exist without somebody or multiple people standing up and saying, “This is who I am in real life and this is what I’m doing.” It kind of had to be done. I’m very proud to say that I’m not the only one, like you for example, doing this, that there are community members that are going to speak at meetups and contributors who work on Monero who are going to talk at meetups. So, we’re starting to see, slowly, a portion of the community come out front and center which is kind of exciting, so that it’s not just me. 

Mike: Fair enough. Yeah, you know, that’s certainly something that I kind of went back and forth on for a while. “Do I want to put my name behind this show or do I want to try and keep some veil of privacy?” I think, ultimately, as somebody who really just wants to talk with people about why they’re in this, maybe it lends a little bit that I am somebody who isn’t trying to hide who I am. I don’t know, I guess I’ll find out in a couple of years, but yeah. 

Riccardo: If you find yourself having to move to South Africa for any reason, just let me know. 

Mike: Actually, one of my really good friends used to live in South Africa and only said good things. I’ve already…

Riccardo: Well, there we go. 

Mike: That was a number of years ago and I have to say it is far easier to Skype from US to South Africa than it ever used to be. 

Riccardo: That’s very true. 

QS 04:48 Mike: I kind of want to get into how you got into Bitcoin, some of things that you’ve been involved in. I know you were on the Bitcoin game or the Bitcoin show, whatever that podcast was where you talked a little bit about this. But, maybe you could just give us 30 seconds, quick brief of why when you first heard of Bitcoin, was it something that interested you and not just something that you kind of dismissed like maybe many people did?

Riccardo: I first really started to dabble with Bitcoin in early 2011. And a lot of the stuff initially that appealed to me was not so much the monetary aspect of it, but the distributed consensus stuff because I hadn’t previously thought that to be possible. The fact that there was something that worked, that did it, was kind of exciting and one of the earliest things that I remember, like really throughout the course of 2011 was figuring out how and why the consensus system worked. The fact that it basically was held together by string, duct tape and incentives. And sort of like learning that and then realizing that you can overcome, you can overcome attacks and challenges with a very clever use of incentives was really surprising to me. It wasn’t something I thought about in that frame, in that way. 

I sort of thought about it more as like, “You know, the only way to do this is by making attacks expensive and cryptography.” And now, suddenly, it was like, “Maybe we can sort of incentivize some degree of rational behavior.” That just blew my early 2011 interest in Bitcoin mind. I did the usual stuff. My initial sort of thing was like, “Oh, mining, look, this is so cool, oh mining. I need to figure out a way to do mining, mining, mining.” Which is not an unusual approach. A lot of people think initially that mining is really interesting. Then, over time, I got more involved in other things and other challenging and interesting areas. Basically, I’ve always sort of been aware of altcoins and always dabbled in altcoins, but honestly, until Monero came along, they were just like an interesting attraction or an interesting toy. Then, even Monero at the beginning, it was just an interesting toy until it became something a little bit more interesting, a little bit more serious. 

Mike: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I’ve heard you describe yourself in the past as at least mostly still a Bitcoin maximalist. I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I know that’s sort of how I personally feel.

Riccardo: That’s true. 

Mike: You know, I think Monero is a cool project, otherwise I wouldn’t be doing this podcast. But just the market penetration of Bitcoin… As something that is a completely open ledger, it has certain benefits for certain applications that maybe Monero doesn’t have. 

Riccardo: Yeah. 

Mike: Yeah. Okay, so that’s cool. I kind of had a… Go ahead.

Riccardo: I was gonna say, as much as I love Monero and obviously I’m working on it for a reason, I think it’s also prudent to understand that Bitcoin has gone places that Monero is just never going to go or it won’t be able to go easily. 

Mike: Sure, sure. Yeah, I think I kind of followed a little bit of that same path as you. I think you’re right, a lot of people do. Hearing about things, saying, “This is interesting,” reading about it and then saying, “I’m gonna try and mine, mine, mine.” And it took me probably a year… I didn’t hear about Bitcoin or at least really take it seriously until 2014 when I sort of stumbled on it on accident and started reading more about it and tried to mine various altcoins. It just became like this incredibly annoying game of chasing what’s the next big thing, when in fact, really none of them were the next big thing. 

Riccardo: Yeah.

Mike: Bitcoin still is the next big thing.

Riccardo: To make it worse, you are battling what are effectively market manipulators and large-scale miners and people with more time, money, and energy on their hands than you or I have.

QS 9:35 Mike: Right. Any time that you would catch a wave at the right time was really just luck and not really knowing what you were doing, or at least for me. Okay, so what was your first attempt at a Bitcoin company? I know you have a number of businesses you’re running now, but what was the first thing that you did?

Riccardo: Initially, the sort of very early stuff that I did was, I helped people get setup with accepting Bitcoin in e-commerce stores. I did a lot of like, just because of the virtue of the business that my wife and I had started, which was an import-export business, I was exposed to a lot of e-commerce stuff like WP eCommerce and OpenCart and a bunch of other things. And so I spent a lot of time coding up ways of accepting Bitcoin in OpenCart or WP eCommerce or whatever and then, assisting people with implementing this in their e-commerce system. It was really like, forget about any of the ways that we do it now, with BitPay or anything like that. This was like, you run an actual wallet on your server and then you’re accepting funds into there and then you have this thing that sweeps it out from there into your cold wallet because heaven forbid you leave it there. 

Then, helping people understand how they can go trade that and all that. I did that, initially I did it just for fun, to help people. People posted stuff on forums and said, “I’m trying to accept Bitcoin in my store.” Then I would help them, and then later on it became a little bit more serious ‘cause people offered to pay me. I didn’t need the money but I also realized that if I kept helping people for free, that would be largely pointless. So, I didn’t say no to the money either. I think that consultancy, for want of a better term, was probably the first, or definitely the first Bitcoin business that I ran. It was just me and I was just having fun and I was supposed to be spending less time on work, but this was fun work so it was great. 

QS 12:16 Mike: Sure, sure. So, I know you have something in private beta right now called PayBee, but that’s not actually your first payment process that you’ve worked on. It sounds like what you were doing before, maybe is that a part of what motivated you to then kind of start working on how do we provide a better solution where people don’t need to run their own wallets? And some type of payment processor like BitPay, but that can accept other things? 

Riccardo: Yeah, so initially I rejected the whole BitPay model. I was like, “Oh, nothing must be centralized, everything must be decentralized, centralized things are a scam. Now that we’ve managed to decentralize one thing, surely we can decentralize everything.

Mike: All of the things.

Riccardo: Yeah, I mean I grew up from that. I realized that it actually wasn’t a feasible approach to life. But I very quickly realized, not very quickly, I mean over time, I started to realize that altcoins in particular weren’t going away. The thing that really solidified it for me was I started up a company called Open Rigs. Open Rigs manufactured custom mining frames or custom frames for mining computers. Pretty much anyone who was doing GPU mining or running large amounts of GPUs, there were guys buying it for cracking password hashes. There were some guys in 3D rendering that bought frames from us. But in large, I would say probably 90% of the people purchasing from us were altcoiners. They were altcoiners that were GPU mining.

Mike: I think that’s actually where I first remember hearing your name. I was looking into whether I wanted to build my own GPU mining rig and started looking at, okay, what would I need to do in order to set this up? And I remember stumbling on Open Rigs. Whether I connected that with you or whether that stuck up around, I have no idea, but yeah, I remember this project. Is it still going on?

Riccardo: It went on for quite some time. One of the things or two challenges that we faced was that shipping from South Africa was just ludicrous. It was cheap and really, really slow or it was expensive and really, really fast. There was nothing in between. Eventually, we created a design for rack-mounted ASICs and rack-mounting is kind of a different beast. There is a lot more precision involved because the entire structure needs to be millimeter-precise because you’re mounting it in a rack and if those rails don’t line up, you’ve got a problem. But the advantage of being flat-packed was still huge. We ended up with one client… During this process of designing and fiddling around with it, we found one client who was really interested in testing it. We sent them a couple of units for their miners and they were super-excited and came back to us and said, “Okay, how many do we need to order from you in order for you not to sell this to anyone else?” 

I’m like, “I don’t know, 10, I don’t know.” I haven’t really thought about that, so we ended up cutting a deal. The manufacturing from our perspective doesn’t really impact on anything because we have the jig set up and it’s manufactured at a workshop that I own, that does a bunch of other stuff as well. Whether we produce one unit in a month or a thousand units in a month or no units makes no difference ‘cause that workshop is producing other stuff anyway. I wasn’t unhappy signing an agreement with them and that agreement is still on-going and they’ve renewed it several times and we pretty much only provide those to them. I see that a couple of our distributors in Europe and US still have some stock that I occasionally see popping up online. Beyond that, we don’t really manufacture GPU frames anymore and we don’t really sell to the public anymore. We have like one client and that’s the only client we service. 

Mike: Okay.

Riccardo: The thing that really happened during the process of selling GPU rigs to altcoiners or GPU frames, was that altcoiners wanted to pay in whatever coin they were currently mining because that made the most sense to them… or the coin they mined last week or whatever. 

Mike: It didn’t matter to them if you were just turning it around and selling it for Bitcoin or for whatever, in their mind, they were paying with that altcoin.

Riccardo: Exactly. There is no vested interest in like, “Let’s make this coin succeed.” There is literally just, “Hey, so I’ve mined a bunch of Primecoin, can I pay you in Primecoin?” And I’m like, “No.” “Yeah, but you know, I have 5% on top…” - “No.” “Oh, but come on…” - “No.” And this was before ShapeShift, they had to actually go into Cryptsy and change it into Bitcoin, then withdraw the Bitcoin from Cryptsy which of course was always touch-and-go. And then it just sort of crystalized in my mind the need for a service that could accept or ingest pretty much anything and spit out Bitcoin, Monero, fiat, whatever. 

18:18 Mike: Sure, sure. I guess that’s kind of where PayBee came in. But PayBee is actually like an evolution of VertPay, do I have that right?

Riccardo: Yeah, that’s correct. 

Mike: VertCoin was one of the coins that I tried mining early on and I sort of liked this idea of always staying ASIC-free and they were trying to implement some type of private transaction or something. I remember that there was a huge backlash or something to your project where like half the community wanted it and the other half thought that you were the second coming of the Moolah guy or whatever his name was. 

Riccardo: Yeah. It’s always interesting to sort of look back on this stuff many years, because it is many years down the line now. The pushback was really silly, the pushback boiled down to somebody, I don’t know who, setup a little anonymous Reddit account and posted in a bunch of subreddits about how I am a giant scammer because people haven’t received their Open Rigs delivery. I went and as part of my response, I’ve posted hundreds and hundreds of tracking numbers to show successful delivers and people posted in those threads, saying, “I have received mine.” It was a frustrating time for some Open Rigs customers because they’d chosen a delivery method that was really slow. They’d chosen a sort of land/sea-based delivery system instead of normal air shipping because air freight was expensive. The land/sea stuff was super slow, it was like three months. 

Mike: That’s a time of mining profit that you’re losing if you don’t have it setup. 

Riccardo: Yeah, absolutely. The most interesting thing for me in that as well, was that the people that were the most vicious, that setup fake accounts to troll and to complain, they were the guys that bought like one rig or two rigs. The guys that bought 30 rigs, they were just like, “Oh, it’s fine, we’ll continue operating out of washing baskets until they arrive.” It’s like the clients that should be complaining - weren’t. 

Mike: Right, so is that where you learned how to be the troll that you are now? 

Riccardo: Yes, I learned how to troll from being trolled. But VertPay, the original idea was like hey, ‘cause I did, I liked VertCoin, it was one of the few altcoins I actually thought could do something interesting. Yes, it’s based on Bitcoin, but at least they’re trying something interesting, let’s see where this goes. The community really impressed me because they had raised a bunch of money for an athlete and the community seemed interested in building up VertCoin as a payment mechanism. It was like, “Okay, let’s setup a payment gateway called VertPay and let’s raise some funds to take this to the next level because we’d done a bunch of development on the sort of underlying stuff anyway.”

Mike: Right. 

Riccardo: And yeah, then there was this post, initially everything was exciting, but then there was this post and then there was like, a whole bunch of people, “This smells like a scam.” Honestly, at that point in time, it was like, “Okay, no problem, we’ll just scrap this idea and we’ll just carry on without it, we don’t need to raise funds to carry on working.” In fact, if we do want to raise funds we can go raise VC. This ended up causing a bit of a rift in the company because there were some people who felt that we did need to raise funds. Again, this is sort of pre-ICO days. They felt that raising funds from a cryptocurrency community was a really clever idea which I guess in the world of ICOs is. 

Mike: If that’s your thing.

Riccardo: Yeah, if that’s your thing. I’m kind of glad on the flipside that it did end up causing a rift and that I ended up not being involved in what effectively could’ve been like an ICO. We also, at the same time, there were a bunch of Bitcoin stock exchanges that closed up shop or one in particular, Bitcoin and Litecoin stock exchange. That killed the opportunity to raise funds in there, through normal sort of IPO-style fund raiser. It was basically like, so much for permissionless innovation, and let’s sort of go back to the beginning, and I will just fund this. I will bootstrap it and when we are at a point… It means that we’re gonna be working slower than we might have expected to, and when we’re at a point when we are ready to start raising funds, we’ll do so through conventional VC means and not by doing any fund raising from cryptocurrency communities which is what we’ve done. 

QS 23:57 Mike: Yeah, I think I can understand that whole transition and I feel like it probably kept you a little more sane that way too. Of course, right about that time is when you tripped and stumbled on BitMonero, right? 

Riccardo: Yeah. Yeah, in fact it was literally at that time. As I was walking away from that and the whole thing was imploding, that was probably Feb-March, 2014. It was like, “Okay, now we’ve got half the company going off to do their own thing.” Which of course never happened and they’ve all carried on doing other stuff and none of them have pursued any sort of stuff in this space at all. Then, the handful of us that were left were like, “Okay, well let’s carry on with what we’ve originally intended to, but let’s just do it slower and with less people.” So that’s sort of how we started down that road, and as we started down that road, I stumbled across BitMonero ‘cause a friend of mine was like… Well, just before BitMonero he was like: “Have you heard of this Bytecoin thing?” I’m like: “Yes, Bytecoin is just some stupid scam, what are you talking about?” And he’s like: “No, no, no, there’s another Bytecoin.” 

Mike: The other Bytecoin, yeah. 

Riccardo: And I’m like, “What nonsense are you talking, there’s no other Bytecoin.” And anyway, then of course there was the whole, “Oh, the accidental discovery of the other Bytecoin.”

Mike: Yeah, turns out it was also the scam, right? 

Riccardo: Yeah, it was like, “I was browsing the web and I found this Bytecoin thing and I’m so confused, what do you guys think? …“ 

Mike: Right. 

Riccardo: That sort of… one thing led to another, next minute I’m mining BitMonero and hoping it will hit Cryptsy because if it hits Cryptsy, like, “Oh, wow, I’m gonna be able to dump my mined Monero - BitMonero rather - for like fortunes, I’m gonna be an altcoin millionaire overnight.” 

QS 26:00 Mike: Right, yeah, yeah. We don’t need to necessarily talk about then how you ended up getting involved in the development of things. You’ve talked about that a lot. Maybe some time down the road we can revisit that. At what point did you then, as you had gotten involved in Monero, did you say, “You know, we need to start coming up with things in this space”? I believe your first thing was MyMonero, is that right? Is that your first kind of Monero project? 

Riccardo: You mean outside the sort of core Monero stuff that I was doing? 

Mike: Right, right. 

Riccardo: Yeah. I mean, even before then, one of the earliest things I did was, at the time PayBee was still called “VertPay”… “VertPay” slash “please change the name because it has nothing to do with VertCoin anymore.

Mike: Right. 

Riccardo: One of the things that I’ve decided… I don’t know, it was probably like July-August 2014, I was like, “Honestly instead of making the settlement options as wide as you’re making them, what if we just made the settlement options Bitcoin and Monero and fiat?” That was a very early, by that time I had already decided that Monero was not actually destined to be a gigantic scam and that it was probably more interesting to just see where it goes. I started to sort of want to do things with Monero and that was one of the first. After that, yeah, there was MyMonero, the web wallet which is a whole discussion in and of itself. Sort of subsequent to that, there is Monero Dice. 

Mike: Yeah, how is Monero Dice doing?

Riccardo: Fine. MoneroDice is actually really interesting because I basically ignore it. I’m really bad with that. 

Mike: It seems like the whole subreddit ignores it too. 
 Riccardo: Yeah. I mean, Stefan and I are already busy at the moment so we don’t pay as much attention to it as we should. But we do have some interesting plans on the cards and what is nice is… When I say “ignore it”, I don’t mean like we literally ignore it. We have a bunch of alerts if anything happens. We check it pretty much daily.

Mike: It sort of just manages itself out, I imagine.

Riccardo: Yeah, it does and the nice thing is that it’s been fairly stable. We’ve had like one security issue and thank goodness we process withdrawals manually because it allowed us to prevent any withdrawal from actually taking place, to fix the security issue and to basically roll back the affected stuff. I’m really grateful that it didn’t become worse than that because it could’ve been… There is always a risk, like myself or Stefan or anyone that I work with, we’re gonna mess up and we’re gonna end up with like getting hacked or getting scammed or getting whatever’d. It’s probably gonna happen at some point, but at least, up until this point, we’ve been fairly okay. I think if we can do it, given that we’re not exactly the world’s foremost experts on this stuff, I think it means that a lot of people can as well as long as they just apply some basic logic and some obvious counter-measures and figure out what their risks are and figure out what their security model is. 

Mike: Sure, sure. Is there any kind of insurance that you can get to help mitigate some of the problems if you were to get hacked? Maybe there’s not, but…

Riccardo: There probably is. Our exposure in the hot-wallet for example is really small. Monero Dice is really interesting because we have a bunch of stuff running that analyzes Monero Dice over time. One of the Monero Research Lab guys put it together for us, put together the paper for us and then we turned that into an actual piece of code that allows us to monitor the betting patterns over time. Unless somebody finds some sort of hack and does like a really slow bleed, like an extremely slow bleed, we’ll pick it up. If they do even like a mediocre slow bleed, then it will be like, “Wow, this is weird, it’s not quite what we’ve expected.” We’ll be able to pick much of that up. At the same time, if we did need to go and get insurance or if we wanted to get insurance, we’d literally just get insurance on the hot-wallet ‘cause that’s the main thing that’s at risk.

QS 31:00 Mike: Okay, cool. Maybe in the future we can hold another discussion about MyMonero and your plans there. I know I told you, I promised this would be somewhere in the ballpark of a half-hour, I think we’re getting close to that. Maybe we can just finish with one last kind-of big question. Since you clearly have experience doing these various startups, and I don’t know, maybe none of them have turned much of a profit yet, but they seem like they might have prospects of that in the future, do you have any advice to somebody who might be listening if they wanted to startup a Bitcoin or Monero, Ethereum or whatever company? What would you kind of give them as your first unsolicited advice? 

Riccardo: I mean, it obviously helps if you’ve got money to bleed. At the same time, I’m looking at all these companies doing ICOs, companies, coins, whatever, I can’t imagine that they’re gonna have lots of longevity. It’s extremely hard to really have, to build up a company that has passion in what you’re doing when you’ve almost stumbled across millions of dollars because you did an ICO. You haven’t really got skin in the game, you’ve done some mock-ups and you’ve done some screenshots, congratulations. I think that we’re gonna see a lot failures. I think we’re very much in that as well, we’re in a sort of dot-com bubble-type of environment where stupid money is getting thrown at projects because people are suddenly rich from their altcoin or Bitcoin investments and they capitalize on it by throwing money at very stupid, ill-conceived projects. 

We’re gonna see those things bottom up, we’re gonna see them collapse, and the projects that will survive, that will last and that will become successful are the ones that maybe don’t start off with a big bang, the ones that maybe start off in someone’s garage, virtually or literally and are built up over time through being hacked away on weekends. The stuff that spins out of hackathons is slowly and carefully worked on by a handful of people. I have a lot of hope that those are the projects that will succeed. I have a lot of trust that they will succeed, rather than the projects that are just like, “Let’s throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks.” 

Mike: I think that kind of is true even just outside of this space. You know, if you want to start a company, it really has to be a labor of love and often times you’re working another job on the side and you’re doing this at night. Maybe if you’re lucky, five years from now you’re turning a profit and maybe looking at either expanding the company or selling it or whatever else. Yeah, makes sense.

Riccardo: Yeah. And passion and love plays a much bigger role in that, even from a VC perspective. You know, I’ve been involved in… I’m not only investing in companies, myself, but also in helping other investors analyze the risk of investing in a company and honestly that’s one of the biggest factors. It’s like, “Are these really passionate about what they want to achieve?”” Sometimes that’s even more important than do “they have this magically solid, good market strategy” because a lot of that stuff can just sometimes be developed over time.

Mike: Right, right. Yeah. Okay, well, thanks for your thoughts on that and sharing a little bit about some of the things you’ve done. I don’t want to keep you any longer just ‘cause I made you that promise that we’d keep it fairly short. But thanks for being, what was it that you said, the guinea pony. 

Riccardo: The guinea pony, there we go. 

Mike: Thanks for helping me kick off the show. Maybe we can have you back on sometime to talk about MyMonero, maybe another one where we can talk about your 2023 exit scam, I know I want to get in on the ground floor of that one to make sure I can make the most money.

Riccardo: I’m sure Bitfinex are gonna be providing some sort of token that you can trade on the exit scam. 

Mike: Yeah, you can bet on when it’s gonna happen…

Riccardo: Yeah, the exact date. In 2023, nobody knows, it’s a surprise! 

Mike: Okay, well, yeah, thanks for that and have a good rest of your day. I know it’s getting towards the later end of your day. Are you in South Africa now or are you still traveling around Europe? 

Riccardo: I am. I got back a couple of days ago, so I’m back on South Africa standard time.

Mike: Well, welcome home, then! And that wraps up just about everything for today. Do you want to tell people how they can get in touch with you?

Riccardo: Yes. If you like trolling, then you can follow me on Twitter, I’m @fluffyponyza or if you’re American, I’m @fluffyponyza. Other than that, I don’t know, reddit, IRC, all the usual jazz, whatever. All the usual outlets. 

Mike: Sure, great. Okay, and you can follow me on Twitter at @moneromonitor. You can also check out our site, or you can get me on reddit at bigreddmachine and that’s redd with two Ds, like reddit. Until next time, so long everybody.

~~ { Closing Music } ~~